No Home Page Bids

Paul Bunyon, 15.09.2005 10:57

The Forest Service claims that no bids were received on the Home Page old-growth timber sale this morning.

The ancient forests of Althouse Creek, and the red tree voles, spotted owls, steelhead, pileated woodpeckers, and del norte salamanders that call them home get a repreive for today.

Will the Forest Service take this opportunity to re-build the bridges they have burned with the public, or will they re-offer the sale and plunge us deeper into conflict and ecocide?

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What? What?!? 15.09.2005 - 13:34 The Forest Service over-appraises a sale and it goes no-bid? Now there's an even bigger suprise! Unheard of! Unprecedented! Moon Muffin> Surprise, surprise 16.09.2005 - 09:54 Maybe the FS will mend some bridges with the majority of the public and re-offer the sale with realistic stumpage rates and logging cost. They should also figure in the added cost of protestors to both themselves and the logger, making sure to itemize the cost for all to see.(gee that might mean the trees will be given away for free) If they actually start producing timber sales that sell and the local and State economies start to feel the benefits then I think they will go along way to mending the fences destroyed by their catering to the preservationist, which the rest of us have had to pay for and continue to pay for every day our forests are left to rot. Chane Sau> verbage 16.09.2005 - 12:19 What you term 'rot' is how we digest our food. Decompose more accurately describes this necessary function of a healthy biosystem. tree> White-Male Whining in the Service Economy 18.09.2005 - 18:19 Why do soft-footed white men feel entitled to public lands? Mr. Chain Sau, aka Mr. Thinkivists aka . . . --you're good at giving advice. Here's some friendly advice for you. It's over. Logging. Your way of life. It's over. You have no one to blame, but yourself. You blame enviros for your woes, instead of yourselves. Instead of your own impotency. Instead of griping at me, Mr. Chain Sau, I'd rather you just said, Thank you. Thanks for the use of my public lands. Thanks for paying for Forest Service roads so they can get the cut out. Thanks for funding the Forest Service. Thanks for not protesting more than you have. And I'll say, Your welcome, Mr. Chain Sau. And I'll say, Welcome to the new Service Economy. You application at Wal-Mart awaits. If you need help filling it out, give me a call. I've already filled mine out. The rest of us are coping with the corp.-induced "service economy." You can too. Toughen up. Splash some water on your face and ask yourself who really took you job. And who gave you your jobs in the first place. Your welcome. And welcome to corporate America. See: Maxxim Holding co. Owner of Pacific Lumber. Welcome to increased automation. Welcome to NAFTA. Welcome to overseas competition. Welcome to corporate mis-management. Welcome to what happens when all that counts is the bottom line. You're obsolete. You don't make money the way you used to. Like the rest of us, you're going to have to compete on a global scale. We're not whining. Why are you? You sit quietly and obediently while Pacific Lumber gets bought by a holding co. and subsequently sucked dry and run into the ground. Do you say anything? No. See: How to keep your hands quietly tucked in your lap when your boss walks by. You blame enviros for your woes, instead of yourselves. Instead of your own impotency. The Forest Service owes you nothing. I owe you nothing. And corporate America sure isn't going to owe you anything. You should just say, Thank you. Now, pick yourself up and fill out your Wal-Mart application like the rest of us. Your welcome, Mr. Thinkivist. Your welcome. Maybe if you had taken your fight to right place, maybe if you were a bit tougher, a bit smarter, you wouldn't be in this predicament. But you are. And you weren't. Quite whining. It's over. Welcome to the Service Economy. Welcome to Corporate America. Best. Silent Type Silent Type> Silent Type 19.09.2005 - 10:30 That much effort surely desrves a response. I actually took the time to read it a second time and you know it didn't make any f...ing sense the second time either. Check your doseage. Rx> Why is it OK 19.09.2005 - 13:37 to be a sexist bigot if it is directed at pro-mgt? Why is that progressive? Curious> RX - Welfare Mentality 19.09.2005 - 15:45 Rx, Thanks for reading. I'll check my dosages, but my comment does makes sense. In a nutshell: I'm tired of hearing loggers whine. No one owes you the right to public property. No one owes you a job. The American people own the land--not the logging co. or the loggers. The American people will decide what gets logged and what doesn't. Based on whatever criteria they choose. A few people writing in this forum sound pissed. They seem not to understand the protests. They argue small points and miss the bigger picture: If citizens don't want certain trees cut, they're allowed to say that. They don't even owe management a reason. It seems like pro-mgt. suffers from a welfare mentality. The government owes them. The people owe them. Instead of pissed off, they should be grateful for what work they were given. In the new economy whole sectors of business have been moved overseas. Former employees have been expected to find work elsewhere. Why are loggers different? They're not. You don't have to agree, but if that doesn't make sense, check your dosage. Silent Type> So your logic is 19.09.2005 - 16:56 because some jobs went to other countries, all jobs should go to other countries. Your logic is this country, that has the toughest enviromental laws in the world, and is experiencing the largest housing boom since post WWII should bring its raw materials in from 3rd world countries, that don't have any enviromental laws. Sorry partner, in the global scheme of the enviroment, your logic still sucks. Rx> Logic v Preference 20.09.2005 - 09:48 My "logic"? You keep wanting to go back to this weak reflex of citing your "logic." What I say: I'm tired of hearing loggers whine. I'm tired of guys like you who think they are entitled. And you want to "logic" your way out of that. If I own a coffee shop with a number of tea cups and I want only certain tea cups to be used on the floor. And I want other tea cups to not be used, that's not logic. That's my preference. And because I own the tea shop, that's what will happen. If a logger comes in and whines that he wants one of my reserved tea cups, well, tough luck. If he whines, I say I'm tired of hearing him whine. Silent Type> Well I do say thank you....every day 21.09.2005 - 08:00 First of all a few of my own assumptions Silent Type.... You must be a frustrated white female who doesn't like men and use the name Silent Type as a Cliche since you are definitely not silent except possibly during...won't go there.. Your doseage may be correct but the oxygen mixture isn't working well. Second to clarify a few mis-conceptions.... I'm flattered that you think I have the education to be thinktivist, or any of the other anti-preservationist on here, but I am Chane Sau and only Chane Sau....I am a rancher and that's even worse....I say thankyou every day, but I say it to God for the wonderful world he provides and the ability he gave us to use our head to reason with......I do believe that we should abolish government subsidy, especially welfare and food stamps. I believe that you can not destroy mother nature, but she (yes she) can wipe you out in the blink of an eye.........I beleive that if you won't defend our freedoms with your life then you don't deserve to have those freedoms....I believe that if you put down our government then you should receive nothing from it.....I believe that if you burn our flag, then you should be asked to leave this country, or venture into a dark alley with me, just one time...... I beleive that most of the environmentalist really don't have a clue as to the facts that they are standing up for, just the rhetoric that they are told......I believe in science that gives an answer based on fact, not on a preconceived notion to justify the answer already....I believe in the wise and sustainable use of our natural resources, not in the preservation of a life cycle that is not sustainable......I have walked in your shoes and among you idiots (and in your camps) and found your beleifs to be flawed, at best....Basically, I am every thing that you preservationist are not. I rely on common sense and hands on experience, with good clean air. Some how I doubt that all of the other non-preservationist would agree with all my beliefs, but I guarantee that people like silent type couldn't last a day in my shoes......Sir, I reliquish the rest of my time back to "Silent Type".... Chane Sau> It seems... 21.09.2005 - 10:17 you miss the point, Sau (or avoid it), re. Silent Type's very clear argument. His/Her words were not meant to induce some cutesy, this-is-who-I-am "sharing time." The argument is concrete... The People own public lands, and the People do not want them logged. Sixty people were arrested in order to stop Fiddler logging, and, here, we merely hear from, on average, four or so pro-logging. I remember seeing one logging supporter, sign and all, who actually got off his butt and showed up to let his preference be known. Good for him... but still only one... one who would not be heard whining, lamenting the position of minority behind the safety glass of computer screen. ...> Your logic 21.09.2005 - 12:38 sucks too! Sixty people waving anti forest mgt signs. So what, there were at least that many people "voting" and protesting your protest by going to work on the salvage every day. Count the people, fallers, rigging crew, loader opperators, landing chasers, pilots, mechanics, ect. ect. ect. ect. These people vote their opinions every day they show up. Or do you want to count the thousands who work in the mills? How about the thousands who build houses? How about the millions who live in houses? Sixty people waving silly signs...give me a break. Curious> The point of the comment.. 22.09.2005 - 07:30 No I didn't miss the point of the previous comment... What's being missed is the the fact that is stated by curious and others ...and ignored by by Silent....The men and women in the majority, just happen to have jobs and family's to raise in a constructive and productive manner, they don't have the time to sit on thier ass, be it a tree stand, tripod, or bridge, with the other sixty people who leach off the government to protest something that most of them don't understand nor can carry on a reasonable discussion about. Once they get through their talking points and have to respond to basic comments backed by on the ground facts and situations they are either SILENT or resort to spewing hate and meaningless discontent...Even the protestors when actually engaged in conversation during recent events like the Green Peace "rally" didn't have the facts about the very sale they were trying to stop....How did that court case turn out anyway????? The point is the facts are in constant motion when it comes to the preservationist..... the talking points only fit if the real facts are ignored...What group won the last Presidential election? Who are the ones giving the most support to the victims of Hurricane Katrina? Who will be the first ones to help when Rita hits? The very people that work for a living to enable you to sit on your ass at a protest.....The real majority has spoken and they do it with votes, that's why you only have 60 people at a protest and the sales and the logs just keep coming......We, the majority are winning and will continue to win every day we get to make a living to support the leaches on the protest line...Do you get this point??????? Chane Sau> Chain Sau w/ No Teeth 22.09.2005 - 07:57 Your "Well I do Say . . " comment is full of contradictions. On the one hand, you praise yourself for being a defendent of freedom. Then in the next line you say people shouldn't have the freedom to criticize their government. You praise yourself for trusting science and logic and then you go on to say that you don't "believe" humans can destroy nauture, when it's the scientists who are trying to tell us that we are destroying nature. And being a rancher, you're very existence is a confused contradiction. You're pro-Bush even as Bush makes moves to allow the extinction of your kind, along with dairy farmers, chicken ranchers and Mid-western farmers. You call yourself an American, yet you want to meet another American in a dark alley--"just once." I've walked among your camps, cowboy, as well. I see weakness. I see a lack of education. I see fear. I see cowboys and cowgirls that no longer understand what this country is about. You've forgotten something. I say that tree-sitters are the new vitality of America. They are what maybe cowboys are supposed to be. They're independent. Intellectually and otherwise. Tree sitters believe in action more than words. Tree sitters ride out their on the edge of civilization. They rely on their wits and their cunning. Cowboys have gotten old and fat. How many fat tree-sitters do you see? How many bloated cowboys do you see? Cowboys have become fat old men, driving fat old trucks, fat on oil and their own ignorance. They rage every once in while, as you have done in you comment, talking about violence (meeting people in an alley) and then they lay down and turn over for every corporate type that sends them a letter. You thank you god, you say, every day for good clean air. But it's going to be the tree sitters that provide you that air. And it's going to be their friends that stop the corporate take over of your ranch. I'd rather you just said, Thank you. Silent Type> Your ignorance is bliss... 22.09.2005 - 09:16 Silent, I seriously doubt that you have walked in our camp...the old fat cowboys, are the ones that use thier head to get the job done, not thier back, the younger ones generally have a college degree and make a decent living, but don't flaunt their intelect or money. Just because you live in America doesn't make you an American, the terrorist that flew the planes into the towers were in America and they sure as hell weren't americans. In case you missed it I also said that freedom was earned and not to be abused....I guess that I have missed where the government is trying to take my ranch, most of which is leased ground - from private land owner's, in case you feel like throwing up the subsidy card - in fact, the governments slow response to Canadian imports has actually helped out alot this last couple of years....as for the science saying that we are destroying mother nature...this would be the same science that says burning the forests instead of clear cutting is good... the same science that says pollutants from the hundreds of thousands of acres of fires each year in the US is better than running equipment, yet rant about the smoke in central and south America caused by the wonderful forest practices you and your group have helped to grow by your actions in our country...... confused, I don't think so....I will say that it would be interesting to sit down and have beer with you and see if an actual civil discussion follows, somehow I think you would loose your cool and not have the intelect to back up your rhetoric, besides you're probably a wine drinker anyway...... Chane Sau> Loss of Cool 22.09.2005 - 09:53 Lose my cool? What like smack you for fucking up my country? Smack you the way you did the kid at the rodeo? (You owe that imaginary kid an apology.) Lose my cool? I'm the not the one shooting and smacking. And I don't drink. But I do believe that ranchers and enviros have something to gain from each other's company. I do believe that ranchers, family ranchers, have something important to say. I'll give you that. But you guys have lost something. Some inner fierceness. And you need to find it. Smacking people at a rodeo isn't patriotism. And burning a flag ain't the end of the world. I say it's the most patriotic thing you can do. And people CAN destroy nature. We can do anything. But do we want to? Silent Type> All ego and no brains 22.09.2005 - 10:24 As usual you are like most of the wackos, full of youself....extreme version, Humans start throwing nukes, population wiped out, earth still here and will again grow, this is a "scientific fact" but no we don't want to go there. The earth will have more ice ages, it will heat up again and cool off again, it's called a cycle, deny it or think you can change it, your ego and pompus attitude will not even make a dent, hey run on down to Texas and hold up a banner saying how good you are and see if Mother Nature spares your sorry ass.....we are here for a very short time in the space of mother nature and she will have the final say, look at St. Helens, is that still a barren waste land, have you ever seen clear-cutting to that magnitude? Gee, where man stepped in and logged came back even better than where mother took over. What are those things swimming in the streams and rivers that had torrents of mud sent down them? You know, now that I think about it.....you're even further out to lunch then I gave you credit for.......The difference between real cowboys, and working Americans in general, and you.....COMMON SENSE, and looking at what resulted from the ideas implemented vs. mindless rhetoric by senseless idiots......Think I'll go cut a tree and eat a steak... Chane Sau> Excuses and Laziness 23.09.2005 - 07:28 Chain Sau, Your attitude is an excuse to do what you want. "Don't worry, it'll fix itself, so I don't have to get off my butt and do anything to save things." Just another way you cowboys show your paunches. Laziness Silent Type> Assumption 23.09.2005 - 08:15 Silent... I can assume by your postings that you don't even start you work day till the sun has been up for several hours and probably at a desk using someone elses equipment - Lazy? possibly, cynical defintitely. But to clarify things for you, so you can twist and turn them some more. You'll be hard pressed to find any user's of our natural resources, specifically loggers and ranchers, that don't make the most out of our environment. We nuture and harvest, replant, tend to, and harvest again, we relent to mother natures destruction only after giving all possible protection, we don't sit on our ass and watch forests burn and then whine when they serve a usefull purpose. Tell me how many private timber owners are not in it for the long run? How many ranchers do you think are in business for the year only to find a new life the next? What you term as destruction we term as the responsible use of a renewable resource. What we term as destruction you term as nature. You lack a fundamental understanding of life. Here's a few basics in simple terms: 1) In life, if you quit moving ahead you are falling behind. 2) Things are born, they mature, they die, nothing lasts forever. 3)If you keep doing the same thing, you will keep getting the same result...The simple truth is that when it comes to the violence, needless destruction, and lack of constructive benefits to our society, you and your friends are generally the contributors. I am willing to bet I have more hands on experience with nature than you have ever read in your scientific reports, get out look at the past, evaluate the present, and predict the future. You're pretty poor at facts and even worse at basic life. When all else fails and the facts just don't add up to your preconceived answer, avoid the issue.....Has this really worked for you in the past. Chane Sau>